Better NPC Support for Devious Devices

[donttouchmethere]

Im also not sure if the folder setup is correct for any other Mod Manager than MO (although I see mods that support FOMOD installation with MO all have the meta.ini added).

 

Usually mods with FOMOD installer don't have a /data folder, but folders named like this:

(example)

 

00 Core

05 LE

10 SE

15 UUNP

20 CBBE

25 Patch A

26 Patch B

 

That's just a rough observation I made from other mods that offer a FOMOD that work with NMM.

 

EDIT 01:

Quick real example:

SCB FOMOD folder hierachy and naming

Spoiler

 

EDIT 02:

I guess NMM sees a /data folder and just installs it like you would install manually without reading the fomod information (means it also installs the fomod folder lol)

 

EDIT 03:

another example

Spoiler

 

[Kharos]

31 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Usually mods with FOMOD installer don't have a /data folder, but folders named like this:

(example)

 

 

As far as I know there is no hard naming convention, the ModuleConfig.xml defines what folders to use when insttaling using the fomod system. Most installers have multiple options and folders for each option. There are no options for now, only a single folder, so I deliberately named that folder Data to make manual installation more simple. I am pretty surprised that NMM does not show the FOMOD installer. Maybe it recognizes that there is a Data folder and gives preference to that?

I will probably need to install NMM to find out what is going on. I did not do this up to now because I was a bit afraid that it will screw up my installation...

[donttouchmethere]

10 minutes ago, Kharos said:

Maybe it recognizes that there is a Data folder and gives preference to that?

That's my guess too.

If NMM sees a data folder it gets so aroused that it doesn't check for any installer options.

[Kharos]

33 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

That's my guess too.

If NMM sees a data folder it gets so aroused that it doesn't check for any installer options.

I just installed the latest NMM (https://www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/4?tab=files).

 

I did not have to do a manual install, the installation completed automatically without showing any UI. The NMM file info shows both the mod version (0.3 beta 3) and the mod author ("Kharos") correctly., It also shows the description in the right-hand pane. These things are all defined in the info.xml inside the FOMOD folder.

 

My best guess is that NMM actually recognizes the FOMOD and just does not show a UI because it is a simple installer without any options.

 

[Edit]

When I remove the FOMod folder from the archive then NMM is no longer showing this information, so it definitively recognizes the folder.

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Kharos said:

I did not have to do a manual install

Why did you thought you have to?

NMM will install everything correctly if:

> In the main folder is an esp => it will automatically move all folders in the same folder as the esp is located to /data

> if no esp is located in any of the mod folders, NMM will search for a /data folder and will install everything that's inside it

> I think by now it also recognizes folders like /meshes /textures /scripts, but I still always add a data folder to mod zips without any esp (especially if it's only single scripts or bodyslide files)

 

Good to know that NMM can read the FOMOD instruction in addition to installing the data folder correctly. i really thought it would blindly drop the fomod folder into skyrim/data ^^, but I just checked and NMM correctly recognized the installer files and didn't drop those into skyrim/data

[kohlteth]

On 2/28/2021 at 2:08 PM, Kharos said:

I just installed the latest NMM (https://www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/4?tab=files).

 

I did not have to do a manual install, the installation completed automatically without showing any UI. The NMM file info shows both the mod version (0.3 beta 3) and the mod author ("Kharos") correctly., It also shows the description in the right-hand pane. These things are all defined in the info.xml inside the FOMOD folder.

 

My best guess is that NMM actually recognizes the FOMOD and just does not show a UI because it is a simple installer without any options.

 

[Edit]

When I remove the FOMod folder from the archive then NMM is no longer showing this information, so it definitively recognizes the folder.

 

Odd I thought NMM had been replaced by Vortex a year or so ago?

[Guest]

Is it competible with dd5?

[Kharos]

On 3/12/2021 at 7:06 PM, Futarrari said:

Is it competible with dd5?

 

Yes, the latest version (0.3 beta 3) is only tested with DD5 actually and will probably not work correctly with old versions.

[Kharos]

On 3/11/2021 at 6:55 PM, kohlteth said:

 

Odd I thought NMM had been replaced by Vortex a year or so ago?

 

I tested NMM because I was told that it might not work correctly with it. Yeah afaik it has been replaced, but there are still people using it. Myself I am using MO2.

[donttouchmethere]

7 minutes ago, Kharos said:

 

Yes, the latest version (0.3 beta 3) is only tested with DD5 actually and will probably not work correctly with old versions.

oops, I used it with DD 4.3

It worked correctly with reapplying DD idles on NPC with DD 4.3 devices.

I have some instabilities to fight with atm, maybe it's because I use the 0.3 version.

 

Guess I should fall back to 0.2 then?

[Kharos]

2 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

oops, I used it with DD 4.3

It worked correctly with reapplying DD idles on NPC with DD 4.3 devices.

I have some instabilities to fight with atm, maybe it's because I use the 0.3 version.

 

Guess I should fall back to 0.2 then?

 

Yeah, you should go back, I started doing optimizations for DD5 in 0.3, it is possible that some of these will cause animations to break with DD 4.3.

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Kharos said:

 

Yes, the latest version (0.3 beta 3) is only tested with DD5 actually and will probably not work correctly with old versions.

Understood, I have one more question, I've tested the 0.2 version of the mod (Because it's the stable one as it's said in the description) and it works fine but I wanted to ask if it's normal that npc even with this mod sometimes and for a short amount of time is able to run with leg restraints. Do mcm options help to minimize this sort of thing or is it fixed with 0.3 beta? Sorry for being so picky ?

[Kharos]

5 hours ago, Futarrari said:

Understood, I have one more question, I've tested the 0.2 version of the mod (Because it's the stable one as it's said in the description) and it works fine but I wanted to ask if it's normal that npc even with this mod sometimes and for a short amount of time is able to run with leg restraints. Do mcm options help to minimize this sort of thing or is it fixed with 0.3 beta? Sorry for being so picky ?

 

That is probably normal. What this mod does is:

• Restore DD special effects when they are broken by loading screens or by modifying NPC inventory (e.g. after trading with follower).
• Replace the combat AI with one that actually respects the limitations of the DD devices.

There are some delays, so when you change the equipment of a bound NPC or go through a loading screen, the DD special effects can be broken for a moment. I need to find a good balance between restoring broken effects quickly and not being too aggressive to prevent script lag.

 

If you see issues outside of these situations (e.g. when running in the wilderness with a bound follower) then the issue is probably with the DD effects itself, not with my mod. Sometimes DD animations are not working correctly in all cases. For example I have seen situations where the arms of bound NPCs were visually free when the NPC was running; as soon as the NPC stopped running, the arms were bond again. I have not found a way to detect this or even to cleanly reproduce it, so the only fix right now is to unequip and re-equip the heavy bondage device to force DD to re-evaluate the animations.

 

PS: If you find a way to reproduce your issues, feel free to tell me how and I will take a look ?.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Kharos said:

There are some delays, so when you change the equipment of a bound NPC or go through a loading screen, the DD special effects can be broken for a moment. I need to find a good balance between restoring broken effects quickly and not being too aggressive to prevent script lag.

Oh no, that's totally fine, I just wanted to know if this was normal. I get it now, it doesn't bug out or anything strange happens, I'm just a very picky and a perfectionist guy. Your mod does definitely help and works fine. ??

[Kharos]

21 minutes ago, Futarrari said:

I'm just a very picky and a perfectionist guy.

 

That's not wrong. It's actually useful for spotting problems in software (I know what I am talking about, I work in software development!).

[Kharos]

Version 0.3 beta 4
- Slightly increase delay after devices are added/removed to prevent race conditions with DD (could lead to lost animations e.g. after adding gags, or removed devices staying visually applied)

 

This is a very small update, the goal is to eliminate two issues that happened sometimes "randomly" in my game, and that I suspect to be caused by a race between my mod and DD:

• Sometimes the bound animations were lost after adding devices, e.g. when gagging a NPC who was already bound.
• Sometimes unequipping devices did not work correctly, e.g. gags stayed visually applied after removing them (technical explanation: The rendered device was kept in place even though the inventory device was removed).

[DonQuiWho]

6 hours ago, Kharos said:

Version 0.3 beta 4
- Slightly increase delay after devices are added/removed to prevent race conditions with DD (could lead to lost animations e.g. after adding gags, or removed devices staying visually applied)

 

This is a very small update, the goal is to eliminate two issues that happened sometimes "randomly" in my game, and that I suspect to be caused by a race between my mod and DD:

• Sometimes the bound animations were lost after adding devices, e.g. when gagging a NPC who was already bound.
• Sometimes unequipping devices did not work correctly, e.g. gags stayed visually applied after removing them (technical explanation: The rendered device was kept in place even though the inventory device was removed).

 

Thanks for the update, and keeping this going.  Makes a fair bit of difference for something seemingly so small ?

[Kharos]

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

 

Thanks for the update, and keeping this going.  Makes a fair bit of difference for something seemingly so small ?

 

Yeah, the scope of a piece of software has a tendency to expand over time...

 

I am currently looking to fix (?) situations where bound NPCs are sandboxing and therefore breaking bound animations. Situations that I have identified are including:

• Non-follower NPCs sandboxing after a load screen (e.g. Adrianne using her smithy after entering Whiterun)
• Serana sandboxing after the player is idle for 8 seconds (seriously, why has her AI to be different from everything else in the game ?)

If you see any other situation that can be easily reproduced, feel free to tell me.

[Kharos]

Version 0.3 beta 5
- Try to prevent bound NPCs from sandboxing (most of this depends on DD NPC slots being enabled and available)
- Add option to restore original outfit of NPCs after DD replaced it with empty outfit (false by default)

 

About the sandboxing fix:

• if you enable NPC slots in DD, it generally does a good job of preventing NPCs from sandboxing even without my mod
• sometimes this mechanism will miss NPCs (often directly after loading screens), my mod now tries to give DD a kick to refresh the slots when this happens
  • this might not work if there are "too many" bound NPCs (more than the number of slots configured in DD MCM)
  • it will also not work if the NPC has an AI sandboxing package with high priority, it will override the DD slot package
  • as a special case for this (priority), I added code to modify Serana's mental model and kick her out of the sandboxing routine if she is bound

About the "restore original outfit" option:

• DD 5.x replaces the outfit of (unique) NPCs with an empty outfit when they are wearing heavy bondage or lockable suits
• for lockable suits this is no longer necessary, my mod should make sure that they stay equipped even if there is another outfit
• for most heavy bondage items you will get clipping if you keep the outfit, because of that reason this option is disabled by default

[UCAB2020]

What exactly would go into a conversion to SSE?

[Kharos]

4 minutes ago, UCAB2020 said:

What exactly would go into a conversion to SSE?

 

I have no personal experience with Skyrim SE, but:

 

  

On 2/16/2021 at 2:45 AM, T-lam said:

tested with SE, no problems as only scripts.

esp-fe works, too.

A little issue, the dummy weapon has no critical effect applied (stays undefined, error xedit)

Inserted an effect to reduce magica to prevent problems.

 

The dummy weapon problem should be fixed with the newest beta.

[Tlam99]

It works very well with SE.

Just today a scene, 2 vampirs and 3 marauders.

The vampirs played with 2 of the marauders and the 3rd marauder my succubus took care of.

Was forced to just watch the scene

Really good mod.

[El_Duderino]

Hi Kharos,

 

Thanks much for the new update! I find it quite amazing how robust and well this mod works and how dramatic the visual experience improves thanks to it. Lately, me and my followers seem to be spending quite a bit of time in hobble dresses and before your mod that was always a bit "immersion breaking" as followers so frequently broke out of their alt.anims.

[Kharos]

15 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Hi Kharos,

 

Thanks much for the new update! I find it quite amazing how robust and well this mod works and how dramatic the visual experience improves thanks to it. Lately, me and my followers seem to be spending quite a bit of time in hobble dresses and before your mod that was always a bit "immersion breaking" as followers so frequently broke out of their alt.anims.

 

Thank you! Yeah, I was surprised myself at the beginning, not only about the visual difference but also about the acoustical difference (chains clinking, rubber suits squeaking, etc.).

 

The interesting thing is that conceptually I am really not doing that much. I take care of the AI during combat to make NPCs respect their restraints. And I give Devious Devices a kick in situations where it often "forgets" special effects, e.g. after loading screens, or after NPCs change equipment.

 

So most of what you are seeing is actually the great work of Kimy and her team, it is just more visible now!

[Kharos]

Quick note, I just "promoted" 0.3 beta 5 to the "final" 0.3 release. There are no changes other than the version number, so no need to update if you are already using the latest beta.